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"We have set out our stall on promoting higher education"

Mukund Padmanabhan

Bill Rammell, British Minister of State for Lifelong Learning, Further and Higher Education, is in India to enhance bilateral ties and to explore possibilities for cooperation in the field of higher education. In an interview, he spoke on his Government's efforts to make Britain an even more attractive education destination.

The report `India-U.K. Strategic Partnership: A Review of Academic and Educational Links' states there is a "slow erosion" in the academic exchange between the two countries. One would imagine this erosion holds true for most countries in the Commonwealth. Isn't it true that scholars from all over the world are turning elsewhere for education and research, particularly the U.S.?

Bill Rammell: I think it depends on the time scale you are talking about. If you talk about the position today compared to 30-40 years ago, there has been erosion. But if you look at the last four or five years, because of something we call the Prime Minister's initiative, we have very much set out our stall to promote the attractiveness of higher education within Britain.

We have increased the number of Indian students coming to the U.K. from about 4,000 to 17,000. So it depends on which time scale you are looking at. But certainly the reason we are here [in India] is the very real recognition by both our Prime Ministers that we want to increase our engagement with Indian education, particularly higher education and come up with some concrete proposals.

But if you look back a little longer, a decade or two for instance, isn't it true that other countries such as France and Germany have taken more steps to strengthen their programmes for academic cooperation? Take Australia, for example. They have been extremely aggressive...

I don't think it's fair to say we have been slacking and others have not. Certainly, the market is more competitive and this is probably a good thing from every individual country's and every individual student's point of view. But look at what we are promoting. First, we do have world class higher education and this is internationally recognised.

Secondly, if you look at fee levels, say in comparison with the United States, we are very competitive. Thirdly, students, including those from India, do find the ability to get a visa in a fairly straightforward way if they are eligible. They also have the ability whilst they are studying to work 21 hours a week. Bear in mind that unemployment is low in Britain. That's a distinct advantage.

And then, there is also the matter of the kind of country Britain is. There are a million and a half people whose families are of Indian origin. Culturally, the U.K. is the kind of place that is very attractive to Indians.

So you agree with the hypothesis that many, if not most, overseas students select the country before selecting the course?

I would say that. This is where we have a distinct cultural advantage. Also, we have been promoting higher educational excellence through advertising campaigns and the media. This is also about promoting a more up to date image of the United Kingdom. If you go back to the early 1980s, and I am going back to a period when I was a student, one of things that was received very badly in India was the introduction by the then Conservative Government of overseas students fees — full cost fees. We have made a conscious effort, particularly under the Prime Minister's initiative, to bring people up to date with what's happening in higher education in Britain, show them the modern face of Britain and that we want to welcome overseas students and Indian students in particular.

The proof is in the figures. There has been, albeit from a low base, a dramatic increase in the numbers coming in. We want to take this even further.

Then why the recent increase by 136 per cent in student visa entry fees? One could argue that at less than 100 pounds, the visa fee is not a lot. But surely the raise sends the wrong signal.

One, if you do an international comparison, we are not out of step with other countries. Two, it's still a relatively small cost compared with the overall cost of doing a course [in Britain]. Three, you have to look at the whole package. Not all our competitors allow students to work while studying. We have a minimum wage of 5 pounds and 25 [pence] an hour and a student can work up to 21 hours a week. So potentially, a student can earn while studying. I don't think there is a problem with doing that as long as the hours you put in are manageable.

There has been a controversy over your Government's move to abolish the right to appeal of overseas students who want to come to British universities. It has been severely criticised by vice-chancellors and academics who fear that, among other things, it will bring the numbers down.

Well, vice-chancellors will fight their corner. That's natural — it happens in Britain, in the United States and in your country as well. I don't think it [the abolition] will make a difference. One, there is a legitimate problem of illegal immigration within Britain. If we are to maintain ourselves as a country that is rightly regarded as one of the most successful multi-racial societies in the world, then we have to tackle abuses. But if you are a legitimate student coming to Britain for a legitimate course, then you have absolutely nothing to fear from the abolition of the right to appeal.

I think the point the vice-chancellors and others were making is that immigration decisions relating to international students are often subjective and wrong. And that abolition of the right to appeal is unjust.

It is not subjective. You are talking to somebody who was the Foreign Office Minister responsible for visa operations [Mr. Rammell was Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State at the Foreign Office]. There are very clear guidelines that our entry clearance officers have to follow. But it [the abolition of the right to appeal] does mean that we need to ensure that the original decision is the right one.

Bear in mind, I think the figures for India are that 85 per cent of visa applications are approved. So that's a very strong message that the vast majority of people are successfully applying for visas. Under the appeal mechanism, often you will be halfway through the course before you get to have the appeal. So surely it is much much better that we get the decision right in the first place. That's what we are focussing on.

You referred to foreign policy. One of the things we hear a lot about is about new initiatives in public diplomacy in Britain. Do you think Britain has gone far enough in actually integrating public diplomacy into the very heart of its foreign policy strategy?

Well, we have a public diplomacy campaign, which is about bringing people up to date with the modern face of Britain. There is some very interesting research that shows people in many countries have an outdated view of us. We want to present Britain as a successful multi-racial multi-cultural society, one that is innovative, one that has a passion for sport and, in terms of science and technology, one that is on the leading edge. Certainly, in terms of world patents, we are at the top of the league, as it were.

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"We have set out our stall on promoting higher education"

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