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"We are looking forward to increased cooperation with India in space"

T.S. Subramanian

NASA chiefMichael Griffinspeaks on India-U.S. collaboration, the quality of ISRO's work, and training astronauts.

Michael Griffin: "I don't think it is possible to do a better job with the money being spent than ISRO is doing. All work I saw was of very first quality and something I believe the Indian people can be very proud of. I was very impressed." — Photo: K.V.Srinivasan.

Michael Griffin took over as the Administrator of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA), United States, on April 14, 2005. On May 9, 2006, in Bangalore, he and G. Madhavan Nair, Chairman, Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO), signed a memorandum of understanding for flying two U.S. instruments on board Chandrayaan-1, the Indian mission to the moon that will take place in 2007-08. The two U.S. instruments are a Miniature Synthetic Aperture Radar that will look for water on the moon and the Moon Mineralogy Mapper that will scan the lunar surface for minerals.

According to the NASA website, Dr. Griffin has been an adjunct professor at the University of Maryland, Johns Hopkins University, and George Washington University, where he taught courses in spacecraft design, guidance and navigation, spacecraft attitude control, and so on. He had earlier served as chief engineer and associate administrator for Exploration at NASA. Dr. Griffin received his Ph.D. in aerospace engineering from the University of Maryland; a master's degree in electrical engineering from the University of Southern California; a master's degree in applied physics from Johns Hopkins University; and a master's degree in civil engineering from George Washington University. He is a certified flight instructor with instrument and multi-engine landings. As NASA Administrator, he is the topmost man in the organisation.

Excerpts from an interview in Chennai on May 11:

There has been a love-hate relationship between the United States and India in space science. In the 1970s, the U.S. helped India to set up the Satellite Instructional Television Experiment. In the 1980s, Ford Aerospace and Communication Corporation built four Indian National Satellites, and they were put in space by American launch vehicles. Then the relationship soured. How do you think flying two small U.S. instruments on board India's Chandrayaan-1 mission will help forge strong cooperation in space between the two countries?

Flying these two instruments on the Indian mission Chandrayaan will certainly help to revitalise the relationship in space between India and the U.S. But it is important to understand that the relationship between the two countries also exists in a broader context. It is important for your readers to understand that nuclear proliferation and control of arms technology is a very crucial issue for the U.S. It is an overriding issue.

The differences, between the U.S. and India in connection with our space programme and space hardware in general, have more to do with concerns over proliferation than any other thing. I believe that with President Bush' s recent visit [to India] and discussions that arose out of that with Prime Minister [Manmohan] Singh, India and the U.S. have come to terms in nuclear issues. With that resolution in hand, it paves the way for the resumption of our normally close relationship in science and technology that has existed for a longer period of time.

How did NASA get interested in flying these two instruments aboard Chandrayaan-1?

We are always interested in such things. That is the norm. Most of NASA science missions, most of our manned flight programmes are actually done in cooperation with other nations. It is common for us to put out announcements of opportunity for instruments of availability on given science missions. It is almost always the case.

In this particular case, India decided to do this mission and they put out an announcement of opportunity, and we along with more than 30 other people responded, and we were fortunate enough to have two instruments selected. This is the customary way of doing business in space science.

The U.S. had earlier pressured Russia not to supply cryogenic technology to India. The U.S. also forced Taiwan to cancel the contract with ISRO to fly one of its satellites on the Polar Satellite Launch Vehicle. Has the U.S. put those days behind it? Can we expect a new relationship between India and the U.S. in space science?

I am not familiar with the specifics. Because of the way you asked that question, I cannot comment. We are looking forward to increased cooperation with India in space.

When will India and the U.S. sign the Technology Safeguard Agreement that will facilitate India launching U.S.-licensed satellites and also satellites of other countries that have U.S.-controlled items on them?

Again, I am not familiar with that issue and I cannot comment on that. NASA does not have any voice in Technology Safeguard Agreements. That is a Department of State issue.

Does NASA have any plans for flying NASA-made satellites/instruments on board ISRO's launch vehicles or satellites?

We don't have any immediate plans. We might respond just as we did with Chandrayaan. We might respond to an announcement of opportunity. We might work with ISRO to create such plans but we are right at the beginning of this.

You visited three key ISRO facilities: the Satellite Centre at Bangalore, the Vikram Sarabhai Space Centre at Thiruvananthapuram, and the Satish Dhawan Space Centre at Sriharikota. Are you impressed with ISRO's achievements?

I will say that it is certainly possible to have a bigger space programme. ISRO spends about $700 million [a year] on space. Other nations spend more and many nations spend less. But I don't think it is possible to do a better job with the money being spent than ISRO is doing. All work I saw was of very first quality and something I believe the Indian people can be very proud of. I was very impressed.

Is the thermal tile problem on the space shuttle fully solved? You encountered it in the recent Discovery flight although the flight was successful.

We did not encounter a problem with thermal tiles. We did not have any problem with thermal tiles.

The foam coming off the external tank.

Yes, we have had problems containing and controlling the foam-release from the external tanks. We believe that we have solved that for the coming flight. We will know when we fly. It is not something that we can test on the ground. It can only be tested in flight. So we will find out.

I guess I can elaborate more for your readers. We are not trying to prevent any foam from coming off the tanks. What we are trying to do is to make sure that no large pieces of foam come off the tanks. That is the problem. If a piece of foam which is too big comes off, then you have an issue.

What is the rationale behind the Bush administration's plans to return to the moon to reinvigorate NASA?

The purpose of returning to the moon is not to reinvigorate NASA... In the first place, it comes down to what any individual thinks is the proper place of a space programme. Our core belief in America is that the space programme is about pushing the frontier and human exploration... We did that during the Apollo missions. We retreated to the space shuttle and the space station. We have decided again that it is not good enough. It is decided that we have to move on ... to an orbit. That is what we are going to do.

What kind of concrete plans does NASA have to create a base on the moon to send astronauts to Mars? What is the time-frame?

We don't have concrete plans for a base on the moon. We have concrete plans to a return to the moon with U.S. astronauts and, hopefully, in company with astronauts from other nations. We will develop the capability to put a research base on the moon in many ways similar to the research station we have on the Antarctica. We will develop the capability but whether we want to merely visit the moon for short stays or put a base there is an actual decision that has to be left to the later administration, later Congress and later NASA administrators. We are trying to put in place the capability. As to when it will occur ... somewhere around 2020, if we decide to go that way.

We might take a quicker route to Mars if anything else. It is entirely possible that if we decide to go to Mars ... 2025. There are no particular dates we are trying to achieve. The only date we can specifically say is that we will have the Crew Exploration Vehicle available by 2014, not later than that. We will be back on the moon by 2020.

Can you throw some light on the Crew Exploration Vehicle that will take astronauts to the moon? How is it different from the shuttle or Apollo flights? Will the CEV take astronauts to Mars also?

The Crew Exploration Vehicle is designed to do double duty. It is designed to ferry astronauts and scientists to the space station. It is also designed to leave the low earth orbit and go to the moon, somewhat similar to Apollo, in that fashion. Because it must do both these things, it is not appropriate for it to have wings. The shuttle design is not appropriate design. So we are going to take a design that at least outwardly it looks like Apollo.

In the longer run, the Crew Exploration Vehicle will be part of the system that goes to Mars and because it is the vehicle on which the U.S. astronauts will re-enter the earth's atmosphere.

What is the information that you have received from the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter, the most advanced payload that NASA has ever sent to a planet?

We have just put it into orbit a couple of weeks ago. We are still aero-braking it into position. So any results we have will be very preliminary and not required to be discussed as yet.

Do you think that technology denial regimes such as the Nuclear Suppliers' Group, the U.S. Non-Proliferation Act or the U.S. blacklisting some of ISRO facilities have really met their objectives?

I don't have any comment on that because those issues are not within NASA's purview.

In the Joint Statement made by President Bush and Prime Minister Manmohan Singh on July 18, 2005, there was a reference to the U.S. training Indian astronauts. In another two years, if India decides to send an Indian into space, will the U.S. help in training an Indian astronaut corps?

We will be happy to help train an Indian astronaut as I have said several times. We don't have any seats available on the space shuttle to provide a flight for an Indian astronaut because we have restricted the shuttle flights in the next four years to those flights necessary to assemble the space station. We have existing arrangements with international partners. There is really no opportunity to add an Indian astronaut to that mix. It might well be that an Indian astronaut could fly at a later date on a Crew Exploration Vehicle. But it could be well after 2014. So training an Indian astronaut for that purpose at this time will become silly. It is far out in future.

In terms of training an Indian astronaut for a home-grown Indian manned flight space capability, again we will be happy to help do that. But that will be the choice of the Indian Government to ask us to do that because that would have to be done on a cost reimbursable basis.

Has the International Space Station become a liability?

... We intend to complete the space station with the terms of our inter-governmental agreements with our various partners and than we will have to use it to do various kinds of science [experiments] including a study of the effects of long-term space flights on human beings. Our plans in that matter have really not changed.

Are you happy with the visit?

It is a great visit. I loved the visit.

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"We are looking forward to increased cooperation with India in space"

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