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"In terms of numbers, a tsunami hits Congo every six months"

Amit Baruah

United Nations High Commissioner for RefugeesAntonio Guterres, former Prime Minister of Portugal, was in New Delhi on invitation from the Government of India. In an interview, he spoke of the multiple crises that confront the world.

— Photo: V. Sudershan

Antonio Guterres: "We need to have more balanced globalisation and that requires equilibrium in international relations... India's presence is, today, one of the key elements to establish this equilibrium."

Can you give us a sense of your interests in India?

I believe that in the 21st century the movement of populations will be one of the key issues. What we are witnessing all around the world is a mixed flow, in which you, basically, have economic migrants, but also people who need protection — because there are refugees, there are women victims of trafficking.

I believe India is a country with a generous tradition of hospitality to refugees and at the same time India is in a region where migration flows are becoming very important. I'm extremely interested in discussing these issues with the Indian Government.

I do believe we need to have more balanced globalisation and that requires equilibrium in international relations. In my opinion, India's presence is, today, one of the key elements to establish this equilibrium.

At the same time, we are involved in U.N. [United Nations] reforms. We want India to be fully part in the definition of our [UNHCR] strategies, our policies, and our involvement in international affairs according to our mandate.

According to UNHCR statistics, there has been a 15 per cent reduction in the number of asylum-seekers in the first half of 2006 as opposed to the same period in 2005 in 36 industrialised countries. Is this drop some kind of success for the controls put in place by these nations?

I think we have two different trends. One, due to the success of massive, voluntary repatriation in the recent period, is the effective reduction of refugees. In 2005, we had more than one million refugees going back home. This demonstrates, contrary to what sometimes prevails in the political debate in the developed world, [that] a larger majority of refugees do not want to go North. They want to go back home: that is their main interest.

This has reduced the number of people trying to get protection. But, it is also true that in some countries, the picture is different. In some countries, more restrictive policies have been developed — border controls — and these have also had a negative effect.

One of the key areas of our activities in Europe is to make sure that even if countries have the right to manage their borders and define their own migration policies, people in need of physical protection should be granted physical access — to asylum mechanisms and fair treatment of their claims.

It is essential to have a very big commitment to fight intolerance. Developments flowing from intolerance have ignited a populist, political debate against foreigners in general. It's necessary to fight these populist approaches, which use fear — mixing migration, refugees, terrorism — and creating in some countries a negative atmosphere for asylum.

The issue of asylum-seekers, refugees, and migrants is clearly linked to electoral gains in the West.

I think it is more complex than that. You see it not only in political parties, but in the media. There is a tendency to explore irrational, emotional feelings either to get votes, to sell newspapers or have bigger audiences for television. The combination of these different trends is igniting in several countries increasing intolerance that is not only a threat to refugees, it's a threat to the social cohesion of these societies and ... world peace.

The number of Iraqis seeking asylum has shown a sharp upward trend in the first six months of 2006 over the same period in 2005 — from 5,800 to 8,000. A total of 1.6 million people are internally displaced in Iraq while up to 1.8 million people have taken shelter in neighbouring countries. What is the UNHCR's role in Iraq and are you able to facilitate the claims of asylum-seekers?

We are now upgrading our activities and have a new master plan for 2007 to upgrade our capacities in the countries around [Iraq]. The number of refugees moving to neighbouring countries from Iraq is increasing — the net movement [outflow] has been estimated at 2,000 a day. It is a major concern.

The countries around have [shown] traditional Arab hospitality to their brothers and sisters. Our concern is to make sure that protection is granted to them. We are also seeing massive displacement in Iraq. People are moving into areas where their ethnic or religious identity is in a majority situation because of the extreme insecurity.

Is there any debate within the U.N. system about what can be done to arrest what is, clearly, a very rapidly deteriorating situation in Iraq and the problem there having been created by a section of the international community?

The U.N. has a political dimension. The Security Council is the key instrument and there it is the United States that decides what the U.N. can do. We, as a humanitarian agency, act based on our mandate on international law, but cannot be involved politically. It is strictly forbidden...but, of course, the political debate on the future of Iraq is a crucial one.

Does the UNHCR's mandate and mission include internally displaced persons?

Internally displaced persons are, first of all, the primary responsibility of the state concerned. There is no mandate for the international community to address the problem — there is a mechanism that was defined in the broader humanitarian community at the so-called inter-agency standing committee with responsibility sharing among agencies. Whenever countries are willing to accept support from the international community, different agencies [will] assume different coordinating responsibilities.

There are reports that the U.S. and, possibly, Canada and Australia, are willing to take in the estimated 1,06,000 Bhutanese refugees living in camps in eastern Nepal for the past 16 years. Can you give us an update?

We have been working consistently in order to provide durable solutions for this population that has been living in Nepal for so long. As you know, based on an agreement between the governments of Nepal and Bhutan, there is an expectation that Bhutan will accept a certain number of these refugees.

We are now conducting a registration [drive], together with the Nepalese authorities, to identify and provide relevant documents to the people in Nepal. There is a commitment from relevant countries for the resettlement of a bulk of [this refugee] population — the U.S. has offered a quota of 60,000. Both Canada and Australia have offered [to take in] relevant numbers — other countries are also involved and we believe a solution is finally... [visible].

The UNHCR has recently withdrawn most of its staff from camps in eastern Chad, which house some 1,00,000 refugees. What is the situation like for the displaced in this region, especially in the Sudan and Chad?

We had to reduce our staff in Chad, but assistance is still being provided through different mechanisms. I think it's fair to say that the situation in Darfur has been the epicentre of an earthquake that is now having an impact in Chad, where we have 2,30,000 refugees from Darfur. We also have 90,000 people displaced inside Chad.

Given the scale and dimensions of humanitarian crises globally, you have spoken of difficulties in getting governments to commit funds for your operations. Has the world come to accept suffering and forced movement of people as a given?

I don't think there is a donor fatigue. We are getting today more or less the same amount of support we got two years ago. In some crises, where there is media focus, strong support [is seen]. The problem is in the areas that are forgotten.

For example, in the Democratic Republic of Congo, we have a number of victims similar to the [Asian] tsunami [of 2004] every six months. But Congo doesn't get the world attention that the tsunami got. Even if there isn't a donor fatigue, what is also true is that the amount of money available to the humanitarian community as a whole is far from meeting the requirements of the needs of the people we care for and are supposed to assist. We are, clearly, under-funded.

You've said previously that in 2006, the UNHCR was likely to spend more money on staff and administration as opposed to operations and that it was morally unacceptable for a structure to become an end in itself. Is this reversible?

We were moving in that direction, but we have attacked that problem in a very determined way and are now slimming the organisation. About 600 posts will be cut in 2006-07 and [we] are now diverting more and more money from the organisation to activities. That trend has already been reversed.

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"In terms of numbers, a tsunami hits Congo every six months"

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