IN CONVERSATION
Peace soldier
REUTERS
Unexpected award ... Admiral Ramdas receiving the "Asian Nobel".
A soldier winning a peace award sounds contrary. But that's just what Admiral L. Ramdas has done. The former Chief of Naval Staff (1990-1993) was awarded the Ramon Magsaysay Award for Peace and International Understanding 2004 for "reaching across a hostile border to nurture a citizen-based consensus for peace between Pakistan and India".
Soon after his retirement, the Admiral began to advocate demilitarisation and peaceful resolution of the Indo-Pak problems. He is the chairperson of the Pakistan India People's Forum for Peace and Democracy and continues to work for people-to-people dialogue.
Excerpts from an interview with H. BALAKRISHNAN.
CONGRATULATIONS. What do you think of the general reaction to your being awarded the "Asian Nobel" for Peace?
(Laughs). Thanks. The calls, messages and letters I have received were beyond my expectation. It has been well received by a large section of society. Members of the Establishment and different organisations have also welcomed this.
Did the Award come as a surprise?
I didn't expect this or any other award. You just carry on with your work and if anything happens like this, it is a surprise. One does not work for awards.
Focus on people
The Forum has completed 10 years. What would be its next major thrust?
September 4 is the 10th anniversary of the PIPFPD. The forum is one area of my operations. I have been working on other areas as well. There is more focus on people to people contact between two neighbouring nations that have been constantly at war. So I suppose it has a lot of topical value.
The 21st Century is supposed to be the "Century of Asia". Now that there are prospects of peace, do you see the Indo-Pak sector, indeed the entire South Asia, as a Zone of Peace?
I think it would be a little premature to say that Asia will be a zone of peace. In fact, if anything, it has been the opposite. There are many disturbing things even now — Afghanistan, Nepal, Sri Lanka. India-Pakistan is a major issue in the subcontinent. The problem between Japan and North Korea and between North and South Korea and the whole of West Asia, which is boiling. It would be premature to think of Asia as a zone of peace. Well, I hope it will be but we are nowhere near it at the moment.
Do you at least hope that the Indo-Pak region will be a zone of peace, in your lifetime?
My lifetime? (Laughs) Let's see. I hope so and certainly I hope successive generations will be able to live together as good neighbours in an atmosphere of peace. I'm a well-known optimist on most issues.
You have been promoting people to people contact. How powerful is the people's "voice", particularly in Pakistan today?
In Pakistan, the voices have been under some restraint, unlike here. Particularly in the case of civil society movements and their functioning. There are limitations, undoubtedly. But then some of those things exist here too.
Clear message
Having said that, I must say that a clear message from unambiguous voices is coming from Pakistan. "Enough is enough. We want some peace and you please work for it". Of course there are extremist and fundamentalist groups there just as we have extreme right-wing groups. They are not for any peaceful resolution. But I would say that the large majority in Pakistan do express this view whenever they can.
Do the politicians and the Generals who wield power respond to these voices?
They are also just as keen right now, I think. But within that group you have the Doubting Thomases. There are people on both sides who ask, "Do you really think they want peace? Do you seriously mean that they want to solve the Kashmir issue?"
The doubt was born out of mistrust, which started in 1946 because the elite wanted to share the gains. They didn't ask the people what they want. But now some are beginning to realise that the route they tried to follow has not given them the kind of dividends they hoped for. On the contrary, it has always been negative. Look at where we are now compared to Southeast Asia. In the 1950s and early 1960s, where were we and where was Southeast Asia? And look where they are and where India and Pakistan are today?
Don't you think size matters where these countries are concerned? Is the comparison with Southeast Asia valid?
It has nothing to do with size. If China, which is much larger, can put things right, why can't we? We have failed in many areas. We have not taken democracy in the right direction of development of the larger many.
Yes, it has given some qualitative improvements for, say, the upper 20 per cent. But the remaining people are in the same state as their grandfathers were! Not much has changed in Orissa or Bihar, in many cities as well as rural areas in our country.
In what way can an ordinary citizen help in promoting the causes you uphold?
The common citizen has a secret weapon he uses once in five years, at least in India. We may quote the Human Development Report and say, "look, we have so much of illiteracy in India". But they are not illiterate. They certainly know what they do not want. They showed this during the last elections. They don't want their peace disturbed. Communal animosities, communal disharmony, riots, looting, killing are things they don't like. They want to live in peace. They want to get on with their jobs. They expect other more important issues to be addressed.
I think, in Pakistan, they have their own kind of limitations and constraints. Many of the State actors have been playing the religious card. They are also beginning to realise that too much support to the extreme right-wing groups to stay in power has not helped them in the long run, because these groups have turned against them.
Process of dialogue
I would say there has been a general awakening on both sides. We should solve our problems through negotiation and dialogue. We should sustain this process and not give up if there are some obstacles enroute.
Today we have a common religion. What role do you see for cricket?
Cricket? (Laughs). Cricket is not the only common thing. We have so many things in common — a shared heritage, a shared past. You can change boundaries but you cannot change humanity. A line drawn by a gentleman called Radcliffe does not alter the basics.
About the main bone of contention, Kashmir, what's your take?
If you know how much money both countries have spent on this, we could have maintained a hundred Kashmirs! And look at what it has meant for Pakistan — the Frontier Province, Baluchistan, Sind and backward areas that are not developed. The only province that is relatively better off is Punjab. Likewise, in India there are so many things begging for attention. But we are concentrating on other things. Look, we are 1.5 billion people — India, Pakistan and Bangladesh together. So many people are kept on hold for the so-called future and destiny of just seven million people in J&K! This knocking heads against each other makes no sense. I am talking on economic terms.
In this context, do you think terrorism and religious fanaticism would be on a low gear in the near future?
Well, there is an action-reaction syndrome coming into play here. If the VHP can be less aggressive and terror-striking... There is no basic difference between the Hizbul Mujahideen and Praveen Togadia.
What or who has been the greatest source of support in the tasks that you have undertaken?
Obviously, my wife and family have been my closest allies. My wife and I have been working together for the cause of peace, demilitarisation and denuclearisation.
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