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`Attitudes must change'
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Two representatives of pre- and post-independent India mull over corruption, skewed priorities and the country's future
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PHOTO: V. SREENIVASA MURTHY
FREEDOM MEANS DIFFERENT THINGS Both H.S. Doreswamy and Sudesh Mahan agree that people have become very urban-centric
Every year as Independence Day comes and goes, we grow more disillusioned and move that much away from the very notions and ideals of freedom that was envisaged for the country when martyrs laid down their lives to give us that treasured free will. There is a sort of disconnect between what our forefathers fought for and how we live by it today. This Independence Day, we bring together a veteran freedom fighter and Gandhian and a young artist troubled by his times to voice the doubts and fears within them, as well as look back on what we have done with the country since we gained independence.
H.S. Doreswamy, at 89, has seen it all right through pre-Independent India. He was jailed during the Quit India Movement and participated in the Karnataka Ekikarana movement. A peace activist and later a journalist with Tayi Naadu, he is still a staunch Gandhian. Sudesh Mahan, a young progressive artist who's also popular on Bangalore's theatre scene, is often recognised by his characteristic line drawings. He has worked closely with the late CGK, who headed the Gandhi Study Centre at Bangalore University, to design and produce beautiful calendars every year for Gandhi Jayanthi. Disillusioned and disturbed with what is happening to our world in a time of rapid urbanisation, his angst appears a complete generational contrast to Doreswamy who still talks passionately of the ideals of JP, Nehru, and Gandhi and gets nostalgic over the Congress.
BHUMIKA K. listens as the two exchange their views.
Sudesh: It's been so long since the country got freedom. What has it meant to you? What does it mean in today's world of growing consumerism and globalisation?
Doreswamy: Our concept of freedom had a very limited scope then. We were looking for solutions to poverty and illiteracy that plagued the people. Gandhi's dream was to work for the poor. For him, character building was important; otherwise rulers will become corrupt with power. We hadn't even dreamt that people who want power and money would end up ruling the country! We thought they would be servants of the people. But what about your notions of freedom?
Sudesh: Freedom is a relative term today. What does it mean and to whom? People doing well are not disillusioned about it. We are promoting a new face of capitalism that is based on self-interest. Only after a person is very rich does he want to do social welfare because he wants to show he is also human. Unlike in the Gandhian age when social welfare was a passion, now you're paid for it and it's a job. But sir, do you believe that the nation lost its character in the bid for an economic struggle?
Doreswamy: This has nothing to do with economy. We are a prosperous nation. We have the resources and the manpower. But we haven't retained an identity, Indian-ness, an our-ness.
Sudesh: Talking of identities, our media unfortunately today projects the world as just being in the cities... what about the grassroots? There is only a "documentation" of what's happening in the villages and of farmers committing suicide.
Doreswamy: We are a land of villages and it's our first duty to look into their interests. Gandhi's idea of the Green Revolution was that we shouldn't beg from other countries. Today it's the forte of middlemen. Fertilisers were brought in, then subsidies, our agricultural experts were bought over, production came down, agricultural land was reduced, more importance was given to cash crops... farmers were even told they must sow the seeds they were given!
Sudesh: Yeah, what you are talking about are serious issues. It almost looks like we have pledged our nation. But how do we get all this across to the youth?
Doreswamy: Yes I agree, we haven't made people aware enough of all these situations. NGOs should do it. It's their work.
Sudesh: NGOs themselves are the trouble!
Doreswamy: In 1938, when the Congress wanted to spread awareness about their work, there was no money, no aeroplane... but they spread the message in every village. Even today we have many concerned people in the country, people with national pride, but why is the message not going down to the last person?
Sudesh: That's because we have moved away from our grassroots approach to a highly individualistic one. Patriotism has become jingoistic, a matter of showmanship. You don't know your fellow beings and someone in Bangalore won't know what's happening in Kolar.
Doreswamy: In the Sarvodaya movement we went on padayatres asking people to give up land, but also discussing the state of the country and our ideas with them. If the message does not reach people, there will never be a revolution. Revolution is not just about bloodshed. It means a change in values, the seeds of which must be sown in the mind.
Sudesh: But there is no mental freedom for the average man. We are still essentially mentally shackled, despite attaining a physical freedom for the country.
We have many things to battle today — MNCs and a corrupt system.
Doreswamy: Yes, I agree. We think that freedom has come to all. We celebrate it on August 15. But it's only touched 10 per cent of the population. The chasm between the haves and have-nots is just widening day by day. There are people earning Rs.50,000 a month. But agricultural labourers don't even have work beyond four months.
Sudesh: Farmers come to the city to work as labourers.
Doreswamy: Yes, and they stay on in cities. There is an attempt toward large-scale urbanisation, mecahnisation and industrialisation. But Nehru's "industrialise or perish" plan to counter unemployment, didn't really work.
Sudesh: It's all a process of globalisation... Nehru's intentions were right, but his vision didn't work in the long run. But then look at movements like Kurien's milk co-operative movement in Gujarat. Why didn't it work elsewhere? This is where human resources can be used to the maximum. To me a person like Kurien is more important than (IT czars).
Doreswamy: Kurien created livelihoods for the common man. But you tell me something. We have so many NGOs. We have many intellectuals working for them but still they have not been able to bring about changes. Why is that so?
Sudesh: Except for a small group of NGOs, no one is really working for any change. The NGOs' job has become to stop public frustration from building up against a corrupt government. Most of them are funded by foreign countries. For them it's just a job. The problem is that the present generation lacks depth in understanding the history of our country. They don't even have time to observe their fellow beings. How many of us have read Gandhi or know his ideals? The national media is willing to fight for Jessica Lal but who is fighting for the Vidarbha farmers committing suicide? The nouveau rich and urban elite give a damn for the poor. We are losing sensitivity to the real people of the nation. A Narayana Murthy sharing his Infosys profits with a small bunch of people makes national news, while 300 farmers committing suicide is reduced to a single column. I'm from a generation in transit. I hate going to parties because people have intellectualised poverty and problems.
Doreswamy: Attitudes must change. What do you think we must constructively do to change the attitude of the youth?
Sudesh: We need to bring in genuine people into the government. There are people who are interested in decentralizing ... we must vote for such people. Wrong people are framing the policies. Good people are a vanishing minority. Capital has become the nucleus of our society while welfare should be our mantra.
Doreswamy: Yes, the government's attitude is like that... .
Sudesh: While we can't change the process of capitalism, we can only humanise it.
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